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Post by barbara on Dec 24, 2008 12:52:54 GMT -5
Just saw my doc on Dec 22. He is happy with the suppressed TSH and said to continue on the 2 1/2 grains Armour. I told him I was self-treating with the HC, and explained to him the benefits I was already experiencing (no diarrhea after 10 years of it, skin discoloration starting to clear up, etc, etc). He did not believe that any benefits were coming directly from the HC, and said that I must have "something else wrong with me". He flat refused to prescribe the HC, but said as long as I was aware of problems it COULD cause, he had no problems with me taking it. He also said that if hypopit was involved, that I would need to see an endo and start all over again with my tests (NOT!). I don't have another appt with him for 12 weeks.
These were drawn Dec 4 at 8:00 am, fasting, no meds. I was taking 2 grains of Armour (increased to 2 1/2 after the blood draw, due to continuing symptoms). I am currently taking 25 mg of HC. I have Hashi's (dx'd by doc) and secondary AI (dx'd here ;D). I have updated these results after receiving the pending ones (CheMom answered some questions on the Adrenals forum before I got the updates).
IGF-1 146 (92-190) GH 4.4 (< or = 10.0)
Antiadrenal Antibody Screen w/reflex to titer screen - Negative Antiadrenal Antibody Titer & Pattern - Negative (range <1:10)
Deoxycorticosterone - 38 (they do not provide a range for post-meno women; only male; female for follicular, luteal and pregnancy; and post-ACTH stim for males and pre-meno women). I have no idea why they ran this test or what it means, other than Wikipedia's explanation of "a steroid hormone produced by the adrenals that possess mineralocorticoid activity and acts as a precursor to aldosterone".
TSH 0.08 (0.40-4.50) (on 2 grains)(was 0.15 on 1 1/2 grains) T3 Free 392 (230-420) (was 270) T4 Free 1.2 (0.8-1.8) (was 0.96) T3 Uptake 30 (22-35%) (was 31%) T4 Total 8.3 (4.5-12.5) (was 7.8) Free T4 Index 2.5 (1.4-3.8) (was 2.4)
Glucose 92 (65-99) eGFR >60 (> or = 60)
Sodium 142 (135-146) (was 137) Potassium 4.3 (3.5-5.3) (was 4.2) Calcium 9.8 (8.6-10.2) (same) Protein total 6.9 (6.2-8.3)
Ferritin 45 (10-232) (was 38) B-12 508 (200-1100) (was 318)
The MRI of my head was basically normal, other than mucus retention cysts in both maxillary sinuses (16 mm each) and mucosal thickening in the sphenoid sinuses.
The MRI of my neck showed a small cyst beneath the mylohyoid muscle, and 5 and 6 mm nodules in the thyroid. (The ultrasound in Feb 2008 showed scattered focal lesions both solid and cystic throughout the thyroid that were up to about 0.7 cm.) (It also showed more disk degeneration in my upper disks which may help to explain my constant frontal headaches.)
I still have fatigue with an afternoon "slump" where I cannot keep my eyes open. I have an almost constant headache, and within an hour of taking the HC I get a shooting type of pain just over the left temple area. It goes away within 15-30 minutes, leaving just the normal headache. I also still have the "brain fog", aching bones/joints/muscles, non-refreshing sleep, hoarse voice, BAD mood swings, etc.
Tested low aldosterone and renin in the past. I supplement all vitamins, minerals, ferritin and sea salt.
Comments would be appreciated! Thanks.
Barbara
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Post by Chris Jackson on Dec 28, 2008 11:06:48 GMT -5
Yeah NOT!
How much HC are you taking and how do you take it? The shooting pain up your temple, I've never heard of something like that. It maybe the mineralcorticoid property doing that
Your igf-1 is pretty low. I use the old range of 150-350. GH is low. I like to it at least above 6. You may need ITT or arginine test later. Treatment, if deemed necessary, needs to wait until all other hormone therapies are going real good since the other therapies may raise your GH.
I seen with yours maybe 3 deoxycorticosterone tests. I don't remember specifics about those other tests. Yes, is a precursor to aldosterone (two steps above). Not worth much for what we do here.
Your free T3 being pretty high for 2 grains suggests you may not be on enough steroid.
If fasting, your glucose is high. Need to ask for fasting insulin. I see fasting glucose of 50-60 being good, fasting insulin of 5 to 10 being good, but I like to see closer to 5.
Your sodium even at 142 is low and I would expect you to have salt wasting and low aldosterone. Potassium at that level about 70% chance of being secondary AI.
You're welcome, Chris
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Post by barbara on Dec 28, 2008 13:38:19 GMT -5
Chris, thanks for the reply! Hope you and your family had a great Christmas!
All of the labs were fasting (not even water!) for at least 12 hrs. In late April '08, my fasting glucose was 94 (70-110), so it appears to have increased this time 92 (65-99), if I calculated the different ranges right. Don't quite know what is going on there.
I am taking 25 mg HC: 10, 7.5, 5 and 2.5; Armour dosed 1 gr, 1 gr, then 1/2 gr at bedtime. I do not believe this doc will order any labs other than thyroid from now on -- he got kinda miffed at me the other day when I questioned some of my test results, and also when I told him I had started self-treating the HC. He seems to be of the opinion that if the TSH is suppressed, and all other non-thyroid labs are within their range (no matter where in that range), that nothing else needs to be done. Even my low ferritin was of no concern, he just said to "take some iron" if I want. I guess I only THOUGHT I had found the right doc ...
As far as the low aldosterone/renin -- I drink sea salt water and use sea salt exclusively on my food. I normally have to get up at a minimum of three times during the night with a full bladder. My ankles are quite puffy, as is the area around my eyes (looks like I haven't slept for a month!). Doc said my swollen eyes were probably due to allergies, altho he ran a fairly comprehensive allergy panel that was all negative. I also try to eat high potassium foods, as it normally runs between 3.8 to 4.2; sodium varies from 137 to 142.
My BP still shoots up high mainly at night, altho not quite as bad as it was. The only BP med I am taking now is Clonidine just before I go to bed.
I am starting to have even more deep-seated bone/joint pain, and muscle cramps from my toes to my thighs. I am also gaining weight in my stomach/hip area, no matter what my diet is. I still feel rotten and just don't know which way to go from here.
I will keep looking for a doc that will run these other tests, and, hopefully, will be able to figure the rest of this mess out. I have had custody of my 10 year old granddaughter for over five years, and just wish I could feel more human so that I could do more things with her!
Thanks for everything,
Barbara
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Post by Lethal Lee on Dec 29, 2008 4:05:30 GMT -5
Hi Barbara, Your last results for Ferritin, B12 are still far too low of course although I see they have come up some. Maybe you need to change sups or increase the amount? What about Vit D has that been tested? Optimal levels of Vit D have made a big difference to my muscle aches/pains. I also try to eat high Potassium foods, as it normally runs between 3.8 to 4.2 Those Potassium levels are still far too low as well. Optimal is around 5. Unlikely you will optimise just on Potassium foods alone. I strongly suggest you get hold of Potassium supps. Some use Potassium powder in juice 3-4 times a day. Your Sodium/Potassium balance is definitely not right. The fact that you need to get up 3 times a night to pee tells me that. How much Sea Salt are you supping & how often? Muscle cramping was a low Potassium symptom for me. Its possible that with Aldo & Renin already tested & low that Sea Salt alone will not be enough for you. May need to consider Florinef. Florinef stopped night time peeing for me. It also stopped nausea, headaches, heat intolerance & sweating. Frees & symptoms (hoarseness, unrefreshing sleep, fatigue) tell me you are still HypoT & undertreated.
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Post by barbara on Dec 29, 2008 12:21:13 GMT -5
Hi, Lee,
I have been taking Hema-Plex for the low ferritin (85 mg of elemental iron, also includes B's, C, E, folate, zinc, selenium, copper, etc). It was quite a trial and error process to find one that I could tolerate, and then I found out the hard way that I can only take one of these a day without BAD gastric upset!
The B-12 is Methylcobalamin, 5 mg sublingual Xymogen professional formula, once per day. I could possibly increase this one.
In June 2007, my Vit D was 16.8 (32-100), and in March 2008, it was 29.3 (30-60), both times testing low. My old doc had written me a prescription for 50,000 iu's once per week. When I researched that particular prescription, I found that it was more or less a synthetic that truly wouldn't help D levels. I bought bioactive D3 sups instead, and have been taking between 4,000 and 6,000 iu's per day. I need to have my levels checked again.
I sup with sea salt 3/4 tsp early in the day, another 1/4 - 1/2 tsp in the evening, and liberally on my food. Before the weather cooled off, I would sweat profusely, sometimes for no apparent reason. Sounds crazy, but it would start literally dripping off my face (with NO exertion!), then I would have like an uncomfortable tingling heat flash running all through my body in waves, and then just start dripping sweat from all over! My heart would also start pounding fast and hard. But ... my body temp would still be sub-normal. Even now, it seldom goes higher than the high 96's.
I do have the constant headaches, heat/cold intolerance, mainly morning nausea, osteoporosis, degenerative disk disease, etc. I want to have my aldosterone and renin tested again, and then I will check into the florinef, if indicated. (In mid-2007, my aldosterone was 7.1 (4.0-31.0) and my renin was .88 (1.31-3.95 upright)(per Chris, the range should have been 2.9-24 salt fasting). I will also get potassium sups.
My 8:15 am cortisol was 11.7 (4.0-22.0), and ACTH was 12 (5.0-27.0). I am taking 25 mg of HC (divided doses) and 2 1/2 grains of Armour (divided). My Free T3 has gone from 2.7 to 3.92 (both ranges 2.3-4.2) in a little less than three months. My Free T4 is now 1.2 (0.8-1.8). I don't want to wind up with a Reverse T3 problem, but with the continuing problems, do you think I should increase the HC, or Armour, or leave things alone for now?
The HC has stopped my 10-year history of daily diarrhea and my skin discoloration is becoming more normal. Is there anything particular in the HC that would cause this? It is a wonderful change! Maybe it will help with the malabsorption problems.
As of Sept 2008, my TPO Ab's climbed again, but the Anti-thyroglobulin Ab's lowered just a touch. (TSI has not been tested since Sept '07, then was 120 range <125).
My sex hormones appear to be ok for being surgically post-meno for over 25 years, no HRT since the early 90's (had been premarin). I had a complete hyst because of huge cysts throughout my uterus and ovaries, as well as an abnormal pap. Also, my FSH 115.4 (41-121); LH 45.7 (14.0-61.0); Prolactin 2.1 (2.0-27.0) (I wonder why this one is so low altho in range?).
Although the head MRI was "normal", I had several severe head injuries as a child and young adult (knocked out with a baseball bat in my pre-teens, in two auto accidents where my head bounced off the dash (admitted thru ER for one of them), thrown off a horse and was knocked out plus broke my pelvis/miscarried (not knowing I was pregnant), etc). I guess it is possible that I damaged my pit or something without showing physical signs of it?
Extreme stress throughout my life ... but better now for the most part.
Sorry for rambling, still trying to find reasons/treatments for all of this!
Thanks for your thoughts.
Barbara
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Post by barbara on Jan 3, 2009 13:52:08 GMT -5
Hope everyone had a great holiday!
I'm still trying to figure out some things, probably along with almost everyone else, lol! I have some further questions regarding calcium levels, etc. I was diagnosed with osteoporosis and degenerative disk disease many years ago. I could not tolerate the "Boniva" type products, as they would come back up within minutes of swallowing them. The inhaled ones also caused extreme nausea that would not go away. I chose not to do the "reclast", after reading that the infusions could cause extreme bone/joint pain (already have that). I tried to increase my calcium/magnesium intake thru supps (have lactose intolerance so diet no help); I would get extreme stomach upset, increased diarrhea and a bad headache, no matter how small/large the doses were. I have not taken any of this type of supps for over a year now, altho I have tried to several times with the same reactions.
My Vit D is below range (even w/supping), my phosphorus was 3.2 (2.4-4.2), my PTH w/out calcium in March, 2008, was 52 (12-88), and my calcium always fluctuates from 9.7-9.9 (8.6-10.1). Although I have every symptom (except one, kidney stones) of parathyroid disease, I don't think this is possible because neither my calcium or PTH is elevated out of range.
Am I missing something that anyone could suggest? I would most certainly like to figure out what caused the extensive osteoporosis/DDD at such an early age (early 40's when diagnosed), and would especially like to figure out how to reverse it, if possible!
Comments appreciated!
Barbara
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Post by chorton28 on Jan 3, 2009 20:45:15 GMT -5
Barbara, How are your teeth? Could it be b/c of the hormonal imbalances your body is too acidic? I have read about when hormones are out of whack your body can be very acidic pulling calcium out of the bones. Some suggestions would be light weight lifting, taking aloe vera before taking calcium/mag/vitD/vitK/lysine/vitC supplements . This may soothe your stomach....If it gets better, later, (weeks later) if you can take it with some Hydrochloric acid pills b/c some people have very little HCL in stomach, not allowing the absorption of calcium. And 20 min of sun per day. The best type of VitD. Hope I can help. Christine
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Post by Lethal Lee on Jan 3, 2009 22:20:34 GMT -5
Barbara, How are your Sex Hormones? Estrogen & Testosterone are both very important for Bone Density & strength. In fact optimising ALL of them including the balance not just levels are important. You need them at GOOD levels not just at the 'in range for age adjusted levels". As far as Magnesium is concerned I had acute sensitivity for many years too. I just found a supp I could tolerate. Its an Australian one you may be able to order it or find a simialr one. It is best to supp Mag & Calcium separately well away from each other. In fact most people have no problem getting Calcium from dietary sources as it is added to lots of things & may be high in drinking water too. Magnesium is a different story. Like Potassium Magnesium is very deficient in our diets. Have you added a Potassium supp yet? ======================================== Magnesium Completewww.weightcontroldoctor.com.au/index.php?page=shop&subpage=cat2&id=53Magnesium Complete is a combination of four magnesium compounds to supplement inadequate dietary intake of this important mineral. Magnesium Complete can be used to relieve muscular cramps and spasms, and nervous tension, stress, mild anxiety and sleeplessness. Magnesium calms the nerves and provides temporary relief of the pain of rheumatism. Contains no table salt, lactose, sucrose, dairy products, gluten, yeast, artificial colours, artificial flavours, artificial sweeteners or preservatives. Always read the label. Use only as directed. If symptoms persist consult your healthcare practitioner. Did you know? Aspartate is a mineral chelate, meaning it assists the entry of magnesium into the cells of the body. Aspartate may help to reduce fatigue and increase stamina. Aspartate and aspartic acid are types of protein - they are NOT the same as the artificial sweetener aspartame. None of our products contain the artificial sweetener aspartame. Active ingredients per tablet Magnesium orotate Equiv 13 mg elemental magnesium 200 mg Magnesium aspartate Equiv 13.4 mg elemental magnesium 200 mg Magnesium amino acid chelate Equiv 30 mg elemental magnesium 150 mg Magnesium phosphate Equiv 16.5 mg elemental magnesium 80 mg Total elemental magnesium per tablet 73 mg 100 tablet container (lasting approximately 2 months) 200 tablet container (lasting approximately 4 months) ============================================= As far as Vit D goes are you taking Vit D3? Is it oil in gelcaps? Oil is better more absorbable. You may find adding Vit A is the answer. I take Vit A 10000 IU (1/2 in am 1/2 in evening) daily again this is an oil in gelcap. Vit A & Vit D work together & if low in one may affect utilisation & absorption of the other. I had very deficient D levels & have managed to optimise. Note you should maintain levels once optimised as they easliy drop again. Most say 1000IU Vit D but I found I needed 2000 IU as maintenance dose. I posted an article a while back about Calcium. You need a lot more than just Calcium for bone. Its worth reading the whole article. Heres an excerpt The Calcium Myth forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8393&p=65727&hilit=calcium#p65727
What happens when you take Calcium supplement………….mostly nothing!!!!
If the fibrous tissue of the bone couldn't hold the Calcium it already had, neither can it hold the Calcium supplement.
The truth is that Osteoporosis does involve Calcium but NO MORE THAN IT INVOLVES ANY OF THE OTHER MINERALS AND TRACE MINERALS REQUIRED FOR BONE FORMATION -- including Silica, Magnesium, Manganese, Copper, Selenium, Iodine, and Phosphorus.
Each of these minerals is, qualitatively speaking, every bit as important as Calcium in bone formation. One very interesting study showed that supplementing with trace minerals with no additional Calcium cut the amount of bone loss in half in Osteoporosis patients.
Are you beginning to realize that you need a little more than a Calcium supplement to help your Osteoporosis patients? Don't be fooled by the notion that you will develop Osteoporosis without taking a truck-load of Calcium. Remember, it takes having a healthy balance of ALL your essential mineral to prevent Osteoporosis. Perhaps you can find a supplement that has those trace MInerals in the right proportions? As far as acidity is concerned if you take Vit C use the buffered kind rather than Ascorbic Acid. You can also use an alkaliser like the Alkala N I use as my Salt supp. It is mainly Sodium Bicarb. Are you still working on your Ferritin? That was only ~45 at last test. Similarly B12 was still far too low at only ~ 50% in range. Still supping that one?
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