ginab
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Post by ginab on Nov 22, 2008 13:17:36 GMT -5
I was on the RTH 'Children's' group and was asking some thyroid/adrenal questions because I just didn't see another place to do that (for kids). Well, ChEMom suggested that all three kids may be hypopit, and well I asked questions about that and they sent me here! Well, if this works, I'll link to my thread over there.... forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10053If I need to re-ask or do something different so you can help me, just let me know! I'm new to both RTH and here, so not quite familiar yet. Thank you! Gina
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ginab
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Post by ginab on Nov 23, 2008 15:30:00 GMT -5
So, no one has replied yet, so I'm going to just repeat what I said on the other thread. I tried to cut it so it wasn't too long, but it's still pretty long. Sorry!
We have an appointment with a pediatric endo on Dec 3rd, and I was wondering what to expect. Both the boys cortisol levels were barely detectable - my 13 yo had very low levels and the 5 year old only one that was detectable. (Labs are below.) On one of the boards I'm on, I was told to take the boys to a ped-endo to be tested for Addison's and get the ACTH Stim test.
I'm just getting nervous since it's only a little under 2 weeks away. I don't want to waste this trip. Anything you can tell me to make this a fruitful trip with be greatly appreciated.
Someone replied that they (all 3 kids) may be hypopit, so I responded with questions about that...
It's really interesting about the hypopit. Hubby's saliva cortisol suggested it, but we haven't been able to find an endo to confirm. (His AM was fine, the rest of the day was undetectable or very low.) Can that be hereditary?
<Also said maybe panhypopit for the boys> Question about panhypopit. Doesn't that make the kids small? Or is that just in some cases? My 5 yo is big for his age - always has been. (90-95th percentile, currently 47 inches tall, 49 lbs) He looks at least a year older than he is. But he is very thin now (from hypoadrenal?) - he was a very chunky baby (from hypothyroid?). The 13 yo has always been in about the 25th percentile, until this year. He is in about the 75th now. He's had a major growth spurt! I think he's about 5'5" and weighs around 110lbs. He's very thin too.
Anyway, any help you can provide will be welcome. I'm very new to the hypopit stuff. I've been researching adrenal fatigue and low thyroid for about 6 months and have been taking T3 for about 11 weeks and HC for about 3 months so I'm good with that side.
Thank you! Gina
Here are their labs.
5 year old boy, Dx: none, but displays many ADHD symptoms Cortisol AM: 3 (13-24) noon: <1 (5-10) PM: <1 (3-8) midnight: <1 (1-4) Cortisol burden: 6 DHEA: 1 (3-10) (it says depressed DHEA is a normal finding in children under 14 and DHEA augmentation is NOT APPLICABLE - emphasis theirs) Estradiol: 7 (male 20-49yrs 1-3) (there's no range for 5 year olds) Progesterone: 41 (no range listed) Free Testosterone: 8 (male 1-19yrs 70-135) Ferritin: 33 (10-105) major low! T3: 448 (230-420) RT3: 22 (11-32) T3/RT3 Ratio: 20.36 ok, but borderline! Aldosterone: 14 (5-80) way low!
13 year old boy, adopted but is my biological nephew, Dx: ADHD and FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) Cortisol AM: 3 (12-24) noon: 2 (5-10) PM: 2 (3-8) midnight: 1 (1-4) Cortisol Burden: 8 DHEA: 2 (3-10) Cortisol-DHEA correlation: 7 Estradiol: 7 (1-3 for male 20-49 years old) Progesterone: 38 (no range listed) Free Testosterone: 19 (70-135 for male 1-19 years old) RT3: 25 (11-32) Free T3: 417 (230-420) T3/RT3 Ratio: 16.68 not good Free T4: 1.2 (.2-1.8) TSH: 2.54 (.5-4.3) Sodium: 137 (131-145) Potassium: 4.2 (3.8-5.1) Ferritin: 104 (10-105) Aldosterone: 7 (< or = 21) too low TgAB: <20 (0-20) TPO: <10 (0-34)
2 year old girl, Dx: reactive airway disease (it's asthma, but they won't call it that yet) Free T3: 394 (337-506) too low T4: 1.2 (.8-1.8) T3 uptake: 29.7 (25-35) they did the wrong test! TSH: 0.88 (.5-3)
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Post by Chris Jackson on Nov 23, 2008 17:19:25 GMT -5
It takes up to 24 hours to get a reply from the moderators.
Panhypopit is rare and can cause short stature (from low GH). Regular hypopit doesn't always involve low GH or GH low enough to treat.
Your 5 year old Keeping in mind I don't deal with kids that often, his DHEA being so low indicates he could be secondary AI Its early to worry much about his sex hormones. He needs TSH, free T3, free T4, thyroid antibody tests. I can't comment on what is there. I don't know what a good aldosterone is for his age. If fasting, for an adult (range 2-24) that would be pretty low. Does he crave salt, excessive urination/sweating, wets bed, has trouble handling summer heat? He needs blood acth, DHEA-S and renin tested. If tests show hypopit, he needs igf-1 and GH tested too.
13 year old He his saliva tests also indicate possible secondary AI. His testosterone suggest a problem, but a bit early to worry about. Retest after he's reached puberty for a year. His free T3 is high because of his low cortisol, T3 is building up, not getting broken down. Free T4 looks low. TSH, for his age I look for 2.0 in males. His Tga and TPO are not worth much. If they are 19 and 9 then he has hashi's. If his TSH fluctuates above and below 2.0, that is indicatinve of Hashi's. His sodium suggests low aldosterone which it is if he fasted salt. If not, needs to be redone. Potassium is low enough to suggests possible secondary AI. He needs ACTH, DHEA-S, LH, FSH and renin blood tests. If tests show hypopit, he needs igf-1 and GH tested too.
2 year old Did her asthma start at 18 months? Does she exhibit symptoms looking like autism? For a child her age (male and female) I look for TSH being 2.5 her TSH suggests possible secondary hypothyroid, but can't rule out Hashi's where TSH can fluctuate, but as low as it is I doubt that is going to be found. She need cortisol, DHEA-S, ACTH, aldosterone and renin tested. Low cortisol is a big cause of asthma, but most docs don't recognise it. Does she crave sugar and or salt?
All the kids have their temp and pulse taken when they are still in bed in the morning, record them for 5 days. Blood pressure also, (Walgreens sells electronic cuffs for $30 to $40. Their best chance of help is with a pediatric osteopath. I can recommend me doc (St. Louis, MO) who used to be a pediatrician and then went back to school to learn environmental medicine. He's like an osteopath and saved my life.
Chris
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ginab
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Post by ginab on Nov 24, 2008 10:00:30 GMT -5
That's what I thought about the panhypopit. I guess she just suggested it as a possibility.
Both boys were salt and food fasting for their tests.
5 year old - He has the tests you said. The doc hasn't given them to me. The T3 on there is a Free T3 though. And I'm pretty sure his AB tests look like the 13 year old's. They don't give actual numbers.
Yes he does crave sugar and salt. He hasn't wet the bed in a long time, but he has had accidents at school or when we are out. He doesn't tolerate heat well. Val (on NTHAdrenals) said his aldosterone was low - she said the ranges were higher for kids. I'll try to find that range and give it to you.
13 year old He craves sugar like a madman. Makes me crazy. His mom is bipolar (which I know can be Hashi's). She is also an alcoholic (hence his FAS diagnosis) and a drug addict (heroine) - she didn't stop her addictions while pregnant and was taking anti-seizure meds too. My brother (his dad) is a crack addict and alcoholic. Well, they both will take whatever drug is available. (Which I now think is from low cortisol.)
2 year old She does crave sugar! Asthma started at 25 months old. She doesn't have obvious autistic symptoms. Hubby has a cousin with severe autism (from his aunt's husband's side) and I have a friend with a child that has Asburger's so I'm familiar with the signs - I did some research because I'm just curious that way. I think her asthma is low cortisol because I was low cortisol when pregnant with her, although I didn't know it at the time.
BTW, I will not be giving my kids any more immunizations because of their already suppressed immune systems.
I am hypothyroid, possibly Hashi's. Bipolar 'runs' in my family, so the likelyhood is high, although I've never had positive antibodies. I'm also hypoadrenal. Am taking T3, HC and Florinef. I also take my temps 3 times a day and BP, so I have a cuff to take theirs. Although I think it's too big for the little ones.
Hubby may be hypopit, but haven't found a doc to confirm. His cortisol was normal in the morning, undetectable at noon and midnight and very low in the afternoon. I don't have thyroid lab results on him yet. His growth hormone is low, and he is taking the shots for that for the last 3 weeks or so. He's also taking HC. I'll be posting what I have of his labs later.
Isn't it great what our wonderful diet and environment has done to us? Geesh.
Thanks for your help! Gina
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ginab
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Post by ginab on Nov 27, 2008 2:07:19 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Jackson on Nov 28, 2008 16:28:47 GMT -5
If there is any new tests you want my comment on, post them here.
You're welcome, Chris
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ginab
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Post by ginab on Nov 30, 2008 16:12:26 GMT -5
I didn't have all of my 5 year old son's labs because the doctor hadn't given them to me, so here they are.
Also, I had answered the questions you had asked, but didn't know if I needed a response from you? It seems like I do, but maybe you were just confirming some things?
Anyway, I will be talking to you tomorrow night.
These are just the labs you asked for. 5 year old's labs Free T4 = 0.8 (.8-1.8 ng/dL) Antithyroid Peroxidase Antibody (TPO) = <10 (0-34 IU/mL) T3, Reverse = 22 (90-350 pg/mL) T3, Free = 448 (230-420 pg/dL) TSH = 2.51 (.4-5.5 mIU/L) T3/RT3 Ratio = 20.36
Thanks! Gina
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Post by Chris Jackson on Dec 1, 2008 13:28:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I was mostly comparing your kids to others when I asked about the autism and all that, but would have talked about it with you if you thought one of the seemed to be autistic. All your kids seem to be AI from symptoms you described.
You need to get his TPO as actual value. If a 9 I see that as Hashi's. His Free T3 could be high because of pooling from lack of cortisol. Very young kids (3 and under) I look for TSH of about 2.5, but I believe after that TSH starts falling. For male of post puberty, I look for TSH being about 2.0. That's a pretty low RT3, unusual, but then again, he's a baby and I may not have seen RT3 in a child before anyway.
You're welcome, Chris
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