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Post by onnineko on Nov 23, 2008 0:07:06 GMT -5
I'm curious to know what experiences you've had with the validity of salivary tests (and their randomness) versus blood tests for cortisol and dhea?
I've had many blood tests done, and only a very few salivary tests. The results for the salivary tests are always skewed, or at least they appear to be compared to blood tests. I've brought this subject up with a number of doctors, some I agree with and others I do not. In general I've been sticking to the theory that salivary tests can only really show if a test is positive or negative, sort of like light on, light off; Without the precision of the blood test which can fairly accurately place numbers into a range which can be used to talk about a range of topics.
What do you think....
Are salivary tests something that one can expect precision from, or are they more of a light on or off?
Onnineko
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Post by Chris Jackson on Nov 23, 2008 16:45:13 GMT -5
If you could post your saliva next to the blood that can help illustrate your point. I like both tests, but with blood you have to know how to interpret around the flawed ranges. Blood is accurate, but because the range is flawed toward the low end, many with AI fall nicely inside the range. At 8am I look for woman to be good at about 25 and men upper twenties to low 30s.
Chris
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Post by onnineko on Nov 23, 2008 21:12:35 GMT -5
Certainly to illustrate then: salivary test conducted on 9/19/2008 by Diagnos-Techs, Inc. Free Cortisol Rhythm 8am >110 ref 13-24nM
Blood Test conducted on 8/29/2008 by Quest Diagnostics Cortisol 8am 17.3 ref 4.0-22.0 mcg/dL
Treatment was the same, and because I need consistency so was my previous day (including food intake, sleep, stress, etc...). You'd think the differences would be less obvious, but if you translate the units, then the salivary test is high by a significant factor.
I've asked the Doctor to allow these tests at the same time, and this particular one only responded that salivary tests are little better than a light switch for accuracy. She refuses to authorize same day tests to validate this presumption.
so thats my experience...
Onni
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Post by Lethal Lee on Nov 23, 2008 21:24:46 GMT -5
Certainly to illustrate then: salivary test conducted on 9/19/2008 by Diagnos-Techs, Inc. Free Cortisol Rhythm 8am >110 ref 13-24nM Blood Test conducted on 8/29/2008 by Quest Diagnostics Cortisol 8am 17.3 ref 4.0-22.0 mcg/dL Treatment was the same, and because I need consistency so was my previous day (including food intake, sleep, stress, etc...). You'd think the differences would be less obvious, but if you translate the units, then the salivary test is high by a significant factor. I've asked the Doctor to allow these tests at the same time, and this particular one only responded that salivary tests are little better than a light switch for accuracy. She refuses to authorize same day tests to validate this presumption. so thats my experience... Onni Onni, Are you taking any meds whether RX or OTC that might be affecting your Saliva tests? Any transdermal Hormones or sublingual hormones/supps? Although Saliva is good for most (is less stressful than multilpe jabs in same day) and said to measure FREE rather than total Cortisol it is more easily contaminated/affected. I have found for me Saliva was NOT good. As I had lots of problems spitting (took 2 hours or more to collect one tube) the results were affected as was so stressful for me. I have NO problems with needles however and my blood results were always lower than Saliva results too. If possible it is good to have TOTAL & FREE Cortisol & Cortisol Binding Globulin (CBG or Transcortin) tested in blood IF you can find a Lab that does this (seems European Labs do it).
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Post by onnineko on Nov 24, 2008 21:40:37 GMT -5
Onni, Are you taking any meds whether RX or OTC that might be affecting your Saliva tests? Any transdermal Hormones or sublingual hormones/supps? Unfortunately I'm taking quite a few, however, none of them are sublingual. There should not be contamination of the sample, had to consider that one, but no. The only one that does affect these results is transdermal progesterone, without it my cortisol is <1 and progesterone levels are negligible. I'm very aware of the ramifications of this, and the various interactions. I personally do not trust salivary tests because they appear to be directly opposing known precision blood tests. However, because I'm also operating completely outside of the normal ranges that most people fit into when the numbers that come back are seriously out of a known expected range, I have to ask why? Is it pertinent, can the numbers be trusted to be correct, or even close? If so, what exactly is this test telling me? That somehow the lifetime of cortisol is faster than we would expect from a normal person? Or that the cortisol conversions are burst orientated.. as in the system works when something is present and does not sustain constant diminishing supply. I have to wonder, can I trust the results of these salivary tests. The doctors that I have learned to trust, 2, are evenly split 1 for and 1 against salivary tests. So my innocent question here... Appears we agree salivary tests are for the birds. Onni
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