missy
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Posts: 6
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Post by missy on Mar 3, 2009 15:42:36 GMT -5
I have just gotten results in and if you guys can take a look and see what you think. I am currently on Armour Thyroid 3 1/2 grains and not currently on HC..have been off for over a year. I am almost 49 and almost in menopause. I am considering going to see Chris's doctor in St. Louis, which is about a 4 hour drive from here. You might remember me as a mod on the STTM forums (B12 and Ferritin)
First value Feb 2009, Second Value Feb 2008, Third Value Jan 2007, unless otherwise indicated
Cortisol 16.5, 18.4, 21.9 (4.3-22.4) AM ACTH 10, 12 (6-48) DHEA-S (Feb 2008) 146 (32-240) DHEA (June 2007) 393 (110-554)
Aldosterone and Renin: first value Feb 2009, second value June 2007 Aldosterone 11.1, 27.0 (4.0-31.0) Upright Renin 1.85, 7.03 (1.31-3.95) Normal Salt Intake, Upright
Sodium 140, 140, 139 (136-145) Potassium 3.6 , 3.6, 3.7 (3.5-5.1)
TSH 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 (.34-4.82) Free T3 5.3, 6.0, (2.3-4.2) Reverse T3 357, 333 (90-350) Free T4 1.30, 1.64, 1.41 (.59-1.17) Notice this very LOW range
Testosterone, Serum 66 (14-76) Testosterone, Free 0.7 (0-2.2) Estradiol 52 (0-31) postmeno (55-150) midcycle +12 days..I was at day 50 FSH 63.6 (23-116.3) postmeno (1.5-9.1) luteal
Ferritin 58, 127, 38, 20 (2005) (10-291) Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy 41, 37.6, (32-100) Vitamin B12 444, 866, 701 (211-911)
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Post by chemom on Mar 4, 2009 10:09:44 GMT -5
Hey Missy, yes I do remember you from over on STTM. Good to "see" you again. I'll jump in with what I can, and the other mods will be along I'm sure. First off, your cortisol looks pretty good. Just a bit low - 20 would be better. Your ACTH looks too low from what I've read though. I think it's supposed to be around 30. To me, both of your DHEA's look o.k. Your most recent aldosterone looks way too low - it should be in the upper third. But I've got a question: did you have it tested during the first week of your cycle? Also, your renin is too low. Both of those low could indicate hypopit, but your cortisol certainly doesn't. Your sodium and potassium are both low, which matches up with your low aldosterone and renin. If you were to end up taking Florinef, or even just sea salt, for your low sodium/aldosterone, I'd suggest adding foods with extra potassium, to help raise that a bit. I'll have to let Ruth or Lee commend on your sex hormones, sorry. All of your thyroid hormones are too high. You've got a problem with RT3 - the ratio of FT3 to RT3 should be >0.020 but yours is 0.015. But this could likely be caused by your low ferritin, low D and low B12. All 3 of those should be supplemented (ferritin - 100 mg. of elemental iron per day with vit. C; 1000 mcg. of D3 per 25 lbs. of body weight per day; and B12, well, that you know I think.) hope that helps some.
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Post by justaustin on Mar 4, 2009 10:42:30 GMT -5
Hi Missy,
Your recent Cortisol of 16.5 is still in indeterminate range. Cortisol levels of 10-20 do not rule out adrenal insufficiency. Your ACTH is the pits. I would say your cortisol with low ACTH supports Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency. Low sodium and potassium allude to low aldosterone and low renin (which you appear to have) and is commonly associated with secondary ai. Do you have heat intolerance,crave salt,sweat profusely in heat? How is your BP/pulse with lying and standing?
I would do a saliva test kit to see what your free cortisol levels are throughout the day.
Your DHEA-S only a bit low. Ideal is upper 1/3 of range. Are you taking DHEA supplements?
I think your free thyroid hormones appear higher because your tissues are not utilizing your thyroid hormones possibly due to lower cortisol. I agree with the ferritin, B12 and vitamin D issues commented on by Janet.
Laurie
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missy
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by missy on Mar 4, 2009 11:19:48 GMT -5
Thanks so much for your comments Janet. And I remember you too Hey Missy, yes I do remember you from over on STTM. Good to "see" you again. I'll jump in with what I can, and the other mods will be along I'm sure. First off, your cortisol looks pretty good. Just a bit low - 20 would be better. I noticed though that my cortisol seems to fall a little more every year..that worries me a bit. I am nearly menopausal as you can see by my LH level. It was actually day 50 and at this point my hormones are so low that I doubt it made a difference. The last time it was in the last half of regular cycles and you can see the difference. I am a little concerned about supplementing iron now since I am not having periods very often anymore. It is only 12 points from the 70 optimal level, so I thought I would start eating liver more often. I would have to test again in a few months to make sure it doesn't fall anymore. Thanks again for all your comments! Missy
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missy
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by missy on Mar 4, 2009 11:34:39 GMT -5
Thanks so much Laurie for your comments and suggestions. Hi Missy, Your recent Cortisol of 16.5 is still in indeterminate range. Cortisol levels of 10-20 do not rule out adrenal insufficiency. Your ACTH is the pits. I would say your cortisol with low ACTH supports Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency. Low sodium and potassium allude to low aldosterone and low renin (which you appear to have) and is commonly associated with secondary ai. Do you have heat intolerance,crave salt,sweat profusely in heat? How is your BP/pulse with lying and standing? I do have sweating and heat intolerance..also a lot of hot flashes, which muddies the symptoms. I do crave salt, but not excessively. I tend to put a lot of celtic sea salt on my food and love salty pickles. I have never caught my BP falling when I take it sitting then standing. But then I tend to get adrenaline rushes when I focus too much on it and I can't get a good reading. I have a lot of low BP readings, like 98/62 sometimes a little lower, especially in the morning hours and evening hours. When I am sitting and relaxed. When running around the house it can get as high as 115/76. Midday relaxed readings tend to run like 105/65. Pulse rates vary, but tend to be in the 90s even at rest. I do get some in the 80s..and a few over 100. Here are saliva tests from the past 3 years, I have not had one done yet this year: Saliva Testing 2-12-2008, 1-4-2007, 12-19-2005fTSH 62, 94, 48 borderline high, (26-85) fT4 0.17, 0.25, .25 (0.17-0.42) fT3 0.40, .44, .36 (.28-1.10) TPO Positive, Negative Estradiol 8, 15, 14 (7-20) Luteal Progesterone 21, 653, 871 (65-500) Luteal Free Testosterone 4 depressed, 11, 31 elevated (8-20) Cortisol Rhythm: 7-8am 28 elevated, 10 depressed, 13 (13-24) 11-noon 7, 3 depressed, 5 (5-10) 4-5pm 4, 2 depressed, 5 (3-8) 11-midnight 2, 2, 4 (1-4) Cortisol Burden 41, 17, 27 (23-42) DHEA 5, 3 borderline, 3 borderline (3-10) Cortisol DHEA Correlation: normal ,stage 5 non-adapted low reserves, stage 4 Maladaption phase2 No I agree with this. I have had to lower Armour in the last year from 4 1/2 grains to 3 1/2 grains and still have high FT3 and RT3 Yes I appear to have absorption issues. Celiac was found last May and I am completely gluten free. I have other food issues and am seeing a nutritionist to address these and the nutritional deficiencies. Thanks so much for your comments! Missy
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Post by Lethal Lee on Mar 4, 2009 12:00:32 GMT -5
Hi Missy,
Just wanted to add re your concerns about Ferritin levels. Possibly optimising B12 & supping other B-vits (good bioactive multi including active Folate) will be enough to bring up the Ferritin without any Iron supping.
Certainly was for one of my sons. But I guess you would know all this already? Also Vit C will help Iron uptake from the foods you eat.
Regarding Androgens I aim for top 25% of YOUTHFUL Lab ref ranges. Not sure if your Lab's Range has been "age adjusted" or not?
In any case DHEAS (55% in range) I think is low & so is your FREE Testosterone (32% in range). Your Total Testosterone was good so must mean SHBG is high? Often SHBG is high when T3 levels are (which yours are). I am on T3 only which cleared out my RT3 (took 4 months) & thats what happened to my SHBG...its now top of range.
I do HRT for DHEA, Estradiol, Estriol & Progesterone. I also ignore Postmeno ranges for Estrogen & Progesterone. They are guaranteed to keep you symptomatic. I am not quite Postmeno too. I had 2 menses in 2007 & 2 last year. Already had one this year!!!
Your Estradiol is pitiful. Your Progesterone is too...what happened to levels here? Were you on Progesterone HRT previously?
I dont trust Saliva for Sex Hormones either. I suggest retest ALL in blood.
Re ACTH that is very low. Chris uses OLD range which went up to 60. Optimal he says is high 40's to mid 50's. he also says Cortisol is optimal ~25 for Women & 30 for Men.
Aldo is very low too. Renin if Salt fasted is wrong range. Salt fasting range is 3-24 so you are deficient there. I would think that Florinef would be needed with these levels. Wouldnt be helped by deficient Progesterone either.
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missy
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by missy on Mar 4, 2009 13:17:40 GMT -5
Thanks so much for taking the time to comment..all of you are helping so much! Hi Missy, Just wanted to add re your concerns about Ferritin levels. Possibly optimising B12 & supping other B-vits (good bioactive multi including active Folate) will be enough to bring up the Ferritin without any Iron supping. Certainly was for one of my sons. But I guess you would know all this already? Also Vit C will help Iron uptake from the foods you eat. This will be good to try. My B12 has never been this low, but this past year, my nutritionist put me on brewers yeast and it just does not seem to be keeping my levels up as much. And possibly the B12 levels for the last couple of years were skewed by the B complex that I took daily. I don't think they were age adjusted I might have to take all T3 too to clear that, but if I need to go back on HC, I would like to see if that might lower both types of T3 since it is likely just pooling in my blood from low cortisol. I did not have SHBG tested so I have no idea if it is high. Does it mean anything else if it is high? I assumed that it is just perimeno that is making them so low..but who knows? I did not add any extra salt, also didn't add salt to my food the day before the test. Otherwise just a regular diet. So my ACTH is low enough to be secondary..and the cortisol too? I do not supplement salt..but I do tend to have a heavy hand with the Celtic sea salt on my food. Sometimes I sneak a chunk to suck on too..guess that is salt craving. I am considering going to see Chris's doctor in St Louis, which is on the other side of my state. I feel like an endocrine mess right now
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